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Goodbye, Good Men uncovers how radical liberalism has infiltrated the Catholic Church, overthrowing traditional beliefs, standards, and disciplines.


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Goodbye, Good Men uncovers how radical liberalism has infiltrated the Catholic Church, overthrowing traditional beliefs, standards, and disciplines.

30 review for Goodbye, Good Men: How Liberals Brought Corruption into the Catholic Church

  1. 4 out of 5

    Peter

    This book explodes the notion that the Catholic priesthood is dying, as there isn't enough interested young men who want to lead a traditional, orthodox priestly life. The problem was NOT a lack of candidates, it was the poisonous environment created within the seminaries by liberal, fallen priests, feminists nuns, and heterodox church leaders. These individuals sought to weaken the Church from below and within by creating a self-fulling prophecy, from which they could restructure the Church, to This book explodes the notion that the Catholic priesthood is dying, as there isn't enough interested young men who want to lead a traditional, orthodox priestly life. The problem was NOT a lack of candidates, it was the poisonous environment created within the seminaries by liberal, fallen priests, feminists nuns, and heterodox church leaders. These individuals sought to weaken the Church from below and within by creating a self-fulling prophecy, from which they could restructure the Church, towards their view of liberated priests, married or gay, or women priests. All a false facade. The author demonstrates that in those dioceses which maintained seminaries which adhered to orthodox Catholic teachings, recognition of the traditional celibate life, and respect of the leadership of the Pope, they have more than enough seminarians. The author, a writer and editor of various Catholic journals, digs deep into the corrupt environment in which young seminarians who sought an orthodox experience. These young men were harassed, degraded, bullied, or attacked by those who had gained the reins of oversight of the seminaries. Those undermined the individual, employing self-empowerment therapy techniques that came out of the ideological swamp of the 196/70s or blatant attacks from feminist nuns, acolytes of Liberation Theology, or sexual harassment from gay priests who promoted "coming out" experiences. Unfortunately, many, too many, young seminarians, without enough solid teaching in the orthodox positions of the Church or faith, could not withstand the onslaught. They often left, confused, disgusted, and their faith shattered. Those who staid often received poor training in the role, habits, and function of a true priest. The book ends positively, recounting the attempt of the Church, Cardinals and Bishops re-establishing control and oversight of these much needed teaching institutions. Many of the old line progressive staff and instructors were force out, have left, are leaving, or under closer oversight. Though the numbers of seminarians are not where they were in the 1950s / early 60s, and many seminaries have closed, the Church is experiencing a growth in the numbers of young men who want an authentic experience, learning the orthodox teaching of the Church. World wide it is reported there are 5,000 more Catholic priests in the world in the last decade. A good start. Orthodox seminaries in the US are seeing an increase in those seeking to become true priests. The question remains - was the priest sexual abuse scandal tied to the liberal corruption of seminaries? The scandal was and will remain a blight on the Catholic Church. Rightfully so. It was handled disgracefully. Cardinal Law of Boston should have stayed and been subject to the civil law. This would have purified some of the wrong of the Church. The harm inflicted by those priests is deep and troubling. However, the argument that the problem is the Catholic Church's upholding of the unmarried, celebrate priesthood is wrong too. The recent cases of child sexual abuse in the news clearly demonstrates that pedophilia is a sickness that can be harbored by married men(Gerry Sandusky and other cases). The Church is guilty of institutional protection, not a corrupt theological stance. The Penn State case clearly demonstrates that institutional protection often trumps all other concerns. Recently a man has sued Harvard Un. from failing to protect him from the abuse of a swimming instructor in the 1970s. Here is the problem. But, part of the problem for the Church was the protection of a homosexual climate within some of the seminaries. The author documents this culture within the seminaries - one referred to as the "Pink Palace", with gay priests and seminarians going to gay bars in the evening, inviting "friends" to stay over night, in some appalling cases underage boys. It was truly sickening to read. What is the tie between this gay subculture in the seminaries during this time and the priest sexual abuse scandal? Was it 100% the cause, probably not. Not all gay men are pedophiles. And gay men can lead just a celebrate life as a committed heterosexual man. However, was it a contributing factor? Undoubtedly. The lethal combination of the corrupt, progressive culture of the seminaries, the blatant attack on the teachings of the Church from those in positions to teach the doctrines and beliefs of the Church, forced orthodox men out, and allowed gay, but particularly those fallen, priests to remain, often advanced into the priesthood. Was this a large part of the problem? Unfortunately, too often those given poor instruction in the actions and roles of an orthodox priest, combined with this scandal, furthers the image of the fallen priest too often accepted to day. I hope that the pendulum will swing back to the image of a trusted priest, but that will take time. Lots of time. But is is starting. Finally. Lord forgive me, but the more I read books like this, which expose the corrupting influences of the 60s Counter-Culture, the intellectual and cultural garbage that has been put forward in our cultural institutions, the more I hate it all. What crap. What dangerous social and cultural crap. Yes, the Civil Rights movement was way, way overdue. (You can thanks the Democrats for maintaining Jim Crow in the South, and segregation in the northern cities). Even the women's movement and other ethnic movements are mostly positive. However, it is the radical froth that bubbles up from these movements that is the danger. The radical feminist movement is largely rejected by most intelligent young women. It is confined to universities where its proponents can hide behind claims of academic protection for putting forth rot. It is the same for the other radical remnants of the 60s Liberation movements. Attacked is the family and community, tradition and time, willing to cut society free from any mooring so it can be shaped, and reshaped and reshaped as many times as needed, by those claiming intellectual leadership, until they can create the society, by force and coercion, as they deem fit. What a bunch of dangerous crap.

  2. 5 out of 5

    James

    I eagerly devoured this book. As one who attended a seminary in the Midwest during the height of the period Michael Rose covers, I can endorse Goodbye, Good Men as accurate to a positively uncanny degree. Unlike some readers, I never tired of the author's extensive use of first-person testimonials. To read these was to relive one of the most horrific experiences of my own lifetime. Not that there wasn't much to be gained during the two years I spent at seminary -- in lifelong friends made, in so I eagerly devoured this book. As one who attended a seminary in the Midwest during the height of the period Michael Rose covers, I can endorse Goodbye, Good Men as accurate to a positively uncanny degree. Unlike some readers, I never tired of the author's extensive use of first-person testimonials. To read these was to relive one of the most horrific experiences of my own lifetime. Not that there wasn't much to be gained during the two years I spent at seminary -- in lifelong friends made, in some great academic opportunities I was afforded, etc. -- but horrific because my eyes were opened to the real cause of the sex abuse scandals soon to envelop the Church. I did feel, while reading, that there was one thing missing here: a full account of how the key network of seminary admissions and priestly formation ideologues originally came to engineer this nationwide collapse in institutional standards. Who were the masterminds? How, when, and where did they organize and communicate? -- through newsletters and conferences, etc, etc? But in any case, make no mistake about it. Moral collapse at the seminaries was the principal cause of the Church's sex abuse crisis. Anyone who was there could have seen it coming. I certainly did. And I found it a marvel, even then, that the bishops ultimately responsible for the catastrophe couldn't see it coming too.

  3. 5 out of 5

    Michael Connolly

    Archbishop Elden Curtiss wrote an article in 1995 that asserted that orthodoxy promotes young Catholic men choosing the vocation of priesthood. The author, Michael Rose, asserts that the requirement that priests be celibate is not a cause of either the shortage of priests nor of the homosexual pedophilia scandals. He blames the priest shortage on the exclusion of orthodox students. He blames the pedophilia scandals on the failure to enforce traditional sexual morality on the students and teacher Archbishop Elden Curtiss wrote an article in 1995 that asserted that orthodoxy promotes young Catholic men choosing the vocation of priesthood. The author, Michael Rose, asserts that the requirement that priests be celibate is not a cause of either the shortage of priests nor of the homosexual pedophilia scandals. He blames the priest shortage on the exclusion of orthodox students. He blames the pedophilia scandals on the failure to enforce traditional sexual morality on the students and teachers. Just as academia has changed over the past few decades to discriminate against hiring conservative professors, the Roman Catholic Church in the United States has changed by discriminating against admitting conservative Catholics to the priesthood. Orthodox Catholics must hide their orthodoxy to survive at the more liberal institutions. Traditional church teachings and Orthodox rituals under siege by the liberals: (1) kneeling during Eucharist consecration, (2) bowing before Communion, (3) receiving Communion on the tongue, (4) wearing vestments, (5) public recitation of the rosary, (6) Original Sin, (7) Being loyal to the Pope and the Vatican, (8) official church doctrine on birth control and abortion, (9) homosexuality is morally wrong. Liberal teachers modify many of the rituals, and if students advocate traditional rituals, they are accused of being rigid, uncharitable, misdirected piety and sexually repressed. At liberal seminaries, students are taught heterodoxy: (1) God is androgynous, (2) Jesus Christ was not divine, (3) Liberation theology, (4) Jungian psychology. (5) ordinating homosexuals as priests, (6) ordination of women, (7) parishes do not need priests, nuns or lay pastors are good enough. Applicants who are otherwise well-qualified are often rejected if they do not support this liberal agenda. Many liberal teachers are intolerant of orthodox students in their classes raising objections to the heterodoxy that they are being taught. Not able to defend their heterodox beliefs by rational arguments, the liberal teachers take the coward's path of excluding such students from their classes. Liberal institutions often send orthodox students to psychotherapists to be reeducated. If they won't bend, they are often expelled from the seminary. Humanistic psychology pushed an agenda of replacing self-sacrifice with self-fulfillment. These ideas originated in the work of John Dewey, Abraham Maslow and Carl Rogers. Rogers colleague, William Coulson, later regretted his role in damaging Roman Catholicism. Elsewhere, I have read that Abraham Maslow also had second thoughts about humanistic psychology, because if failed to address the problem of evil. The author describes 1981 inspections by Seminary Investigation Teams sent by the Vatican. The liberal seminaries put on a show of being orthodox during the visit. For example, dressing up in clerical clothes and hiding heretical books. The liberal seminary leaders chose who the inspectors would interview, so the orthodox minority had no opportunity to speak to the inspectors. You might think that all that a conservative Catholic needs to do is apply in a more conservative part of the country, but it is not that simple. The Roman Catholic institutions share information, and the new place you apply will know about your previous rejection. It is not just priests who can reject you, many applicants are screened by nuns who advocate the ordination of women, and by clinical psychologists who are not practicing Catholics. For more liberal priests, celibacy often means: (1) marriage is forbidden, but sex is allowed, (2) heterosexual sex is forbidden, but homosexual sex is allowed, (3) sex after ordination is forbidden, but sex before ordination is allowed. The author states that the gay subculture is more prominent among formation faculty than it is among academic faculty. Roman Catholic institutions make a distinction between spiritual formation faculty and academic faculty. Spiritual formation is concerned with the students character, prayer, fasting, solitude, service and scripture. The academic faculty are concerned with non-religious subjects. The author also claims that the gay subculture is more prominent among religious orders than it is among those institutions producing priests for parishes. Homosexuality and masturbation are frequently discussed topics at more liberal seminaries. Not only heterosexuals, but also students with homosexual orientations, but who want to remain chaste, are sexually harassed. Sometimes it is not enough to simply refrain from criticizing homosexuality, at some places you are pressured to publicly announce your commitment to affirm homosexuality. If the victim of sexual harassment files a complaint, he is often labeled homophobic and referred to counseling or psychotherapy, while the harasser is not punished. Those who complain about the homosexual subculture are often mobbed and hounded out of the institution.

  4. 5 out of 5

    Jeff Koloze

    Why read a book that’s 18 years old? Because Pope Francis makes it relevant for 2020. Friends recommended that I read Michael S. Rose’s book years ago, but I never “got around to it.” Unfortunately, what Rose has to say about the aggressive gay and lesbian lobby’s activity within Catholic seminaries and the Church at large is still relevant, mainly because the leader of the Catholic Church, Pope Francis, often uses the word “rigid” when referring to his priests who are young and orthodox. If he f Why read a book that’s 18 years old? Because Pope Francis makes it relevant for 2020. Friends recommended that I read Michael S. Rose’s book years ago, but I never “got around to it.” Unfortunately, what Rose has to say about the aggressive gay and lesbian lobby’s activity within Catholic seminaries and the Church at large is still relevant, mainly because the leader of the Catholic Church, Pope Francis, often uses the word “rigid” when referring to his priests who are young and orthodox. If he fears these priests so much to disparage them by calling them rigid, then Pope Francis has unwittingly verified that Rose’s essential claim is just as important now in 2020 as it was eighteen years ago in 2002. At first, I was suspicious about Rose’s assertion. I even asked a parish priest whom I greatly respect and a former seminarian what they thought about Rose’s ideas (that the “Lavender Mafia”, aggressive gay and lesbian activist priests and nuns) infiltrated Catholic seminaries and deliberately frustrate orthodox men from entering the priesthood. What I learned from these faithful men was devastating. Rose’s 2002 accounts of sexual impropriety by gay priests and seminary leaders against orthodox seminarians are shocking. The above quotes suggest that Catholic seminaries still need to heed Rose’s warnings and recommendations, which I reword as follows: expel aggressive gay and lesbian leaders from priestly formation committees and seminaries, return to orthodox practices such as Eucharistic adoration and praying the rosary, and allow our seminarians to be masculine and not watered down versions of leftist nuns. Here, however, is a listing of Rose’s ideas and words to help you appreciate this important monograph. 1. Orthodox men who support Catholic teachings on sexuality are called “rigid” by leftist seminary faculty and nuns (xi). This idea is repeated throughout the work. 2. Rose defines “the ‘Lavender Mafia’ [as] a clique of homosexual dilettantes, along with an underground of liberal faculty members determined to change the doctrines, disciplines, and mission of the Catholic Church from within” (xii). 3. “Orthodoxy begets vocations [….] The converse is also true: Dissent kills vocations” (6). 4. Quoting a former seminarian’s experience, homosexuality and masturbation were topics that “Everyone was always talking about” (65). 5. A particularly egregious case of heterophobia and the militancy of the aggressive gay and lesbian lobby spans several pages (78-82). 6. Rose summarizes “the dogmas of Catholic dissent” held by the aggressive gay and lesbian faculty and seminary leaders: “the Bible is not to be taken seriously because it is ‘culture bound’; one religion is as good as the next; the pope is not infallible; the magisterium is authoritatively abusive; the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist is just an old pre-Vatican II myth; Christ was not really divine; God is feminine; Mass is simply a meal in which we should eat bread that ‘looks like real bread’; women should be ordained priests in the name of equality; homosexuality is normal; and contraception is morally acceptable” (90). 7. The Catholic Medical Association “recommended that seminary faculty should be clearly informed ‘that adherence to the teachings of the Church on sexuality and particularly on homosexuality is not a sign of rigidity or mental illness, but of mental health’” (143). 8. Dropping chastity led to sexual abuses; priestly celibacy was a casualty, not a cause of sex scandals (201). 9. Rose provides readers with an alternative view of the lay ecclesial ministry, seeing it as something which stifles priestly vocations (209).

  5. 5 out of 5

    Philip Vuco

    Controversial when it first came out, this book turned out to be more accurate than anyone would want to admit. I believe that if more Catholics took this book seriously back in the 90's, we would've been prepared for the shock of the Boston pedo/homosexual scandal of 2002. For me personally, this book helped bring me back into the Catholic church. I felt the call to the priesthood since the third grade. What I couldn't understand at the time was why so many priests and nuns were so negative abou Controversial when it first came out, this book turned out to be more accurate than anyone would want to admit. I believe that if more Catholics took this book seriously back in the 90's, we would've been prepared for the shock of the Boston pedo/homosexual scandal of 2002. For me personally, this book helped bring me back into the Catholic church. I felt the call to the priesthood since the third grade. What I couldn't understand at the time was why so many priests and nuns were so negative about me exploring my calling. I grew up in the Chicago archdiocese under Cardinal Cody and Bernadine. Cody allowed for the liberal theology movement to poison the archdiocese and Bernadine blossomed it into coining the phrase "alternate lifestyle" for the homosexual movement. May God have mercy on their soul for leading thousands down the path to perdition. Long story short, I left the Catholic faith during my teenage years because none of the priests were open to discussing my vocation with me. They insisted that if my parents had money to send me to a seminary in the northeast then they would be open to speaking with me. I took that as a slap in the face on their part for treating me differently because I came from a lower middle class family. I had no idea that they were trying to protect me by not sending me to a seminary in Chicago. After reading this book, I became angry at the whole idea that the Church I was brought up in was corrupted to the core with traitors of the worse kind. I and many, many other young men were cheated from discovering our calling simply because we were heterosexual and chaste. This book should be required reading for all Catholics so that they can understand what happened to our church and to prepare for additional scandals to come. Catholics should read this book and demand that all bishops clean up the seminaries and root out the homosexuals and pedophiles from the parish' Since this book's publication the St. Mary of the Lake Seminary seemed to have been cleaned up by the late Francis Cardinal George, and a few months ago, a minor seminary in Chicago was shut down by Blase Cardinal Cupich because of it's homosexual activities. However there are many, many more seminaries that have yet to be cleansed of the liberal poison.

  6. 5 out of 5

    M.

    My thoughts on this are mixed. First, I appreciate the author's intention of highlighting serious problems in Church vocations, his optimism, and without wrongly blaming the Second Vatican Council, denouncing heterodoxy (women priests, liturgical abuse, teaching heresies), the crushing of celibacy, and the endorsing of homosexuality propagated by modern psychology. However, though I understand how highlighting particular instances might give more strength to an argument, I found some of these de My thoughts on this are mixed. First, I appreciate the author's intention of highlighting serious problems in Church vocations, his optimism, and without wrongly blaming the Second Vatican Council, denouncing heterodoxy (women priests, liturgical abuse, teaching heresies), the crushing of celibacy, and the endorsing of homosexuality propagated by modern psychology. However, though I understand how highlighting particular instances might give more strength to an argument, I found some of these descriptions not to be only disturbing and understandably so, but kind of repetitive (yes, I understood that people promoting the idea of gay priests and women's ordination would be together in this), but could you expand more on the heresies? One of the cases came across as particularly dubious if you google information and I don't know where truth lies, but if his source is lying, this is slamming an innocent man even while his name is not given and, worse, slandering a seminary. I find the final chapters which talk about real tackling of the problems less of a he-said she said scenario and redeeming. I still have problems with terms like "feminization of liturgy" to lump everything you don't like about Mass whether it's an abuse or not. Women (or any non-ordained man, for that matter) concelebrating constitutes liturgical abuse; same as inappropiate music... but a woman reading lectures -not the Gospel- in Mass, does not. Likewise, "effeminate" and "feminine" aren't synonyms. Even Fr. Chad Ripperger agrees on this, and it's weird that Sensus Fidelium, his own channel, would gloss over this mistake. Lastly, I must be fair and recognize that this book is old. Perhaps now that gender ideology is a thing in schools, Rose would be more eager to recognize that a culture which, since the 60s has denied the possibility of celibacy in any way or form, and sacrifice for men, is a strong influence on why a man wouldn't consider the priesthood. Because although he talks abotu attacks against celibacy from the inside, they did very much come from the outside, even in that moment, and even more so, now. All in all, I can't wait for the day where error, deceit and degeneracy are fought in all places, with the Church leading the example.

  7. 5 out of 5

    Benjamin Wetmore

    Intellectually and ideologically, I wanted to like this book. The things I liked about this book is that it's reporting a hidden topic, it's well-sourced, it's comprehensive, it's thorough. But, and here's the bad: it's horribly disorganized. You're not given a seminary-by-seminary treatment. You're not given a heresy-by-heresy treatment, it's kind of all jumbled together in this long rambling narrative. You go from trivial liturgical abuses, to outright heresy, in the same chapter, often on the s Intellectually and ideologically, I wanted to like this book. The things I liked about this book is that it's reporting a hidden topic, it's well-sourced, it's comprehensive, it's thorough. But, and here's the bad: it's horribly disorganized. You're not given a seminary-by-seminary treatment. You're not given a heresy-by-heresy treatment, it's kind of all jumbled together in this long rambling narrative. You go from trivial liturgical abuses, to outright heresy, in the same chapter, often on the same page. There are a lot of details that Rose has collected, many of them unfortunately hidden behind anonymous sourcing, but they are scattered throughout. Putting more structure into this book would have helped it enormously. I recognize the challenges in putting a structure onto it, and where to draw the lines, but it still would have helped. It would have given the reader some direction. The current structure is really pointless. The other problem is that there's no call to action. The book feels like it's just promoting scandal and gossip because there's fundamentally no role for the laity to take in addressing these problems. There's not even a meek call to investigate one's local vocations director, or even a list of 10 questions that would help a lay person determine if there was a problem in their diocesan vocations office. A way to clearly identify problems, and some suggestion on what the average reader could do to help solve these problems, perhaps just in supporting the few great seminaries, would have been great, but is missing here. A great book, well-researched, and important book. It's limitation is in its poor structure, and missing call to action/conclusion for readers.

  8. 4 out of 5

    Ernie

    This book will shock and sadden Catholics. It reveals the true reasons behind the dismal priest shortage in the United States. It provides an inside view of the conditions that bred the abuse scandal. The state of the seminary system is detailed and names are named here. No punches are pulled here either. An unflinching look at the decay within the system that turns good men away from the priesthood intentionally in favor of lesser individuals who in some cases deliberately try to remake the chu This book will shock and sadden Catholics. It reveals the true reasons behind the dismal priest shortage in the United States. It provides an inside view of the conditions that bred the abuse scandal. The state of the seminary system is detailed and names are named here. No punches are pulled here either. An unflinching look at the decay within the system that turns good men away from the priesthood intentionally in favor of lesser individuals who in some cases deliberately try to remake the church into an institution completely devoid of its mission. Here you will see the seeds of the abuse crisis and its bitter fruits before your eyes. If you believed that the abuse crisis stems from the celibacy issue, than you NEED to read this book. If this crisis is disturbing to you and shakes your faith, you too MUST read this book also. Within its pages are a tragic story, but also the glimmer of hope as well. What you will read here is not just theories but catalogued evidences of a shocking nature. NAMES ARE NAMED HERE. Every Catholic who cares about this issue and is curious about the dwindling priesthood should read this. Those considering the call to the priesthood NEED to read this.

  9. 5 out of 5

    Christopher Hunt

    This is a very important book for persons discerning a vocation as well as parents who have children that may have a priestly vocation. They need to be prepared for some possible roadblocks and know that they may need to be as cunning as a serpent to navigate waters that may be unfriendly to orthodoxy. This book is not appropriate for teens under 16 in my estimation. Also, I suggest following this book up immediately with Gift and Mystery by Pope St. John Paul II. That will combat the funk this This is a very important book for persons discerning a vocation as well as parents who have children that may have a priestly vocation. They need to be prepared for some possible roadblocks and know that they may need to be as cunning as a serpent to navigate waters that may be unfriendly to orthodoxy. This book is not appropriate for teens under 16 in my estimation. Also, I suggest following this book up immediately with Gift and Mystery by Pope St. John Paul II. That will combat the funk this book will put you in. I disliked the “liberal v conservative” language in the book. There are orthodox “liberals” as well. The author is definitely a Repubicatholic. I understand the tendency, but it is unfortunate.

  10. 4 out of 5

    Kathleen Ryan

    Had heard about this book and it explains a lot to me. My brother in law and a friend both went to Mt. Angel outside of Portland, Or. Both left after a very short time because of the open homosexual activity. Neither married, one later returned to a different seminary and was ordained. The second became what I would call a "lay" priest. He spent his life in the service of others. We lost many good men because of the lack of removing men who were knowingly abusing others. And look what it came to Had heard about this book and it explains a lot to me. My brother in law and a friend both went to Mt. Angel outside of Portland, Or. Both left after a very short time because of the open homosexual activity. Neither married, one later returned to a different seminary and was ordained. The second became what I would call a "lay" priest. He spent his life in the service of others. We lost many good men because of the lack of removing men who were knowingly abusing others. And look what it came to. Shame those bishops who did not do their job during the late 60's, 70's and 80's and removing these predators from their seminaries.

  11. 5 out of 5

    Stef

    having read so much in the past years and talked to people about their first-hand experiences as seminarians none of this is surprising at all. in that sense it can be a waste of time to read this. certainly not something to dwell on. more like a heads up on the worst case scenarios a potential seminarian should prepare for. but also a heads up and a reminder that our priests, present and future, need ALL the prayers they can get.

  12. 5 out of 5

    Miriam Williams

    It is distressing to read of the problems in our Church, but necessary to know how she is being undermined by those who seek to destroy her from within. We are in constant need of conversion. Despite all the corruption of some, we should continually seek to better ourselves and not despair. Vocations to the priesthood and religious life are again on the uptick!

  13. 4 out of 5

    Carolyn

    Awesome book, and an eye-opener. Explains much about what is going on in the Roman Catholic Church today. Great investigative reporting. May have as much to do with the real 3rd Secret of Fatima!

  14. 5 out of 5

    Jeremy Bonnette

    Even though this book is 17 years old, it is still quite relevant to the state of the Catholic Church today. The sad state of affairs in the current Church are frequent headlines in the news and it's in no small part related to the ideas the author lays out in this book. The push to move the Church farther and farther from orthodoxy is real and it has far-reaching effects. Many of the details in the book are just mind-boggling for anyone who believes in the teachings of the Church. I'd love to s Even though this book is 17 years old, it is still quite relevant to the state of the Catholic Church today. The sad state of affairs in the current Church are frequent headlines in the news and it's in no small part related to the ideas the author lays out in this book. The push to move the Church farther and farther from orthodoxy is real and it has far-reaching effects. Many of the details in the book are just mind-boggling for anyone who believes in the teachings of the Church. I'd love to see a follow up book done outlining the changes (or lack thereof) in the seminaries since 2002. 4.4 out of 5 stars

  15. 5 out of 5

    Kenneth

    A somewhat one-sided account of the present state of Catholic seminaries in the US. One of the schools noted for "liberal" leanings I have an M.A. degree from in theology where I studied as a "lay" student. I suppose that if you are a strict Catholic, which I am not, then this can be unsettling. I am a protestant so this all appears odd from the outside perspective where the catholic subculture was beneath my radar for the vast duration of my earlier years. Rose documents rumors that a significant A somewhat one-sided account of the present state of Catholic seminaries in the US. One of the schools noted for "liberal" leanings I have an M.A. degree from in theology where I studied as a "lay" student. I suppose that if you are a strict Catholic, which I am not, then this can be unsettling. I am a protestant so this all appears odd from the outside perspective where the catholic subculture was beneath my radar for the vast duration of my earlier years. Rose documents rumors that a significant number of seminaries (not to name names) harbor gay priests en masse or sexual deviants. This can go all the way to the top of the pyramid from what I hear. I am thinking of Bishop Weakland who shacked up with a gay lover who he then attempted to bribe with extorted money from his diocese. Sort of ironic since he was also the bishop put in charge by the Vatican of the American liturgical office responsible for all those "faggy" or wishy-washy hymns parishioners have been made to sing since the 70's. I can say that in my experience the hypocrisy runs high. The seminary which the author calls "the pink palace" is a bit of an exaggeration, but a very correct characterization by some standards. That many of the seminarians have effete or homosexual sympathies is absolutely a fact. For whatever reason the seminary I studied with thought that it was perfectly appropriate to encourage homosexuality with school sponsored events defending same-sex behavior in politics or in the pews (while not blinking an eye at the Vatican's official doctrines, that is). Communism runs high in seminaries too. Many of the seminarians who follow "the call" to join the priesthood have extremely radical social views. Psychobabble along with religious progressivism informs a somewhat strange understanding of normal human behavior. Not that so-called expert psychologists have no role in dictating a heavily biased religious agenda to relatively sheepish or naïve catholick believers fished out of the flock for various reasons. In some seminaries no doubt the weirdness level can reach outstanding proportions where celibate men or woman live strict observance to the radical side of gospel teaching in communistic living conditions. Many seminarians have the opposite "far-right" inclinations that defend zealously anachronistic practices or beliefs from history. Scandals pervade while the superstitious piety that confuses a "normal" appraisal of life is sometimes troubling to sort out amidst fear from an eager cohort of anti-Catholics in the news media or government. New Age beliefs have a bizarre occult following too that infiltrates the Jesus fish social activist fringe dominating major religious orders. No doubt many priests are well-meaning decent people. Some are just nerds or self-righteous know-it-alls. Good priests in my experience (by the Catholick standard of expectation) fill the ranks of the majority who represent initiated men or religious women. Elderly men who live to help or teach can be very gentle kind understanding mentors or intellectual leaders in an important niche of academic scholarship. Rose cites an account of how students reported being pressured to leave seminaries for defending what the Roman catholic church actually teaches. I can see how that can occur. Another accusation is that computers were spied on or emails passwords stolen. That is an unwarrented invasion of privacy no doubt. The professor I studied with who is singled out in this book is really a nice nun who gave me a good grade while treating students with respect. Some of the radicals who taught did have a demeanor of intolerant sin-sniffing indoctrination either to the left or to the right of the party line in Rome. I suppose having a protestant upbringing the whole thing still seems foreign. Catholic woman are notoriously bitchy or uptight. Catholic men are notoriously chauvinistic or close-minded. The majority of Catholics have deep sympathies with democratic politics socialism or on the far-right fascism. "Anti-Americanism" or dumb patriotism is a significant current underlying much of the American church's political rhetoric. I am not on the Catholick boat so I don't particularly have any investment in whether the author is right to state the convictions in this book or whether he is betraying some sort of unspoken Catholick rule of propriety. I will say that the fishers of St. Peter have a special gift in instilling shame guilt or fear by the spooky austerity or pious religious remnants arising from the kitsch or tacky or ethnic tastes that have informed the cult's history. No weirder than other aspects of life I suppose. The cultural weirdness can be part of the aesthetic charm for individuals bored with the bland protestant culture in the United States. From the outsider's perspective, the John Jay report commissioned by the Vatican provides adequate evidence that rates of malfeasance occur no more so in the Catholic church than in other institutions (religious or secular) of similar bent. I'd like to think that things have been cleaned up since the confusion of the second Vatican council. Yet I don't know. In the end I don't know whether the "pink mafia" is any better or worse than the Italian mafia or the Irish mafia. The whole thing seems unnecessarily creepy in retrospect either way.

  16. 4 out of 5

    Michael E Bralish

    Truth wins hearts and lives A fantastic, eye opening accounting of the artificial vocation shortage in the Church. This book opened my eyes to a world apparently only known to those "on the inside." Truth wins hearts and lives A fantastic, eye opening accounting of the artificial vocation shortage in the Church. This book opened my eyes to a world apparently only known to those "on the inside."

  17. 4 out of 5

    Mary A. Ward

    Everyone should read Reveals facts that every Catholic must face about the state of seminaries and what must be done about the gay subculture which is often not a subculture but a lavender mafia.

  18. 5 out of 5

    Victoria

    The was very informative.

  19. 4 out of 5

    Mary

    interesting and sickening. it is still going on today, in the public view, with those in the Vatican calling our more traditional priests 'ridged'. interesting and sickening. it is still going on today, in the public view, with those in the Vatican calling our more traditional priests 'ridged'.

  20. 5 out of 5

    Susan

    A must read....

  21. 4 out of 5

    rebecca

    This book only confirmed what I already knew about the dearth of vocations. It has been a concerted effort by homosexual activist and those that hate the Church.

  22. 5 out of 5

    Lawrence

    How did the American Catholic priesthood go from an image of wise, strong men like Spencer Tracy in "Boys Town" and Bing Crosby in "Going My Way" to an image of "pedophile priests"? In the "New York Times" bestseller "Goodbye, Good Men," investigative reporter Michael S. Rose provides the shocking answer that the mainstream news media have missed. He uncovers how radical liberalism, like that found on many college campuses, has infiltrated the Catholic Church and tried to overthrow traditional b How did the American Catholic priesthood go from an image of wise, strong men like Spencer Tracy in "Boys Town" and Bing Crosby in "Going My Way" to an image of "pedophile priests"? In the "New York Times" bestseller "Goodbye, Good Men," investigative reporter Michael S. Rose provides the shocking answer that the mainstream news media have missed. He uncovers how radical liberalism, like that found on many college campuses, has infiltrated the Catholic Church and tried to overthrow traditional beliefs, standards, and disciplines especially Church teachings on sexuality."

  23. 5 out of 5

    Rod

    Another depressing chronicle of how our institutions are failing us. In many seminaries in the 60's became homosexual havens, explicitly excluding non-gay candidates for the priesthood. The resulting epidemic of priestly homosexual misconduct are there for our inspection. On the plus side, there is some evidence that there is some effort at turning this around, but I remain to be convinced. Another depressing chronicle of how our institutions are failing us. In many seminaries in the 60's became homosexual havens, explicitly excluding non-gay candidates for the priesthood. The resulting epidemic of priestly homosexual misconduct are there for our inspection. On the plus side, there is some evidence that there is some effort at turning this around, but I remain to be convinced.

  24. 4 out of 5

    Dan

    A third of the way through. Another interesting book.

  25. 4 out of 5

    Alan

  26. 4 out of 5

    Ken

  27. 5 out of 5

    Andrew Mclaughlin

  28. 5 out of 5

    Enrique

  29. 4 out of 5

    Joseph Moore

  30. 4 out of 5

    Diane

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